There's an advisee I'm in contact with from Northwoods because I've been his advisor for a couple years now. He's a good student, very smart. He listens to advice, except sort of doesn't.
For example, he'll come and ask about X, and he wants to do X in a specific way. But I'll suggest he do X in another way and explain why. Then he'll insist on doing X his way, and some weeks later, will come back and say that it didn't work and get all frustrated with the system. So eventually he'll do X, maybe in the way I suggested, maybe in another way. And he'll say that he sees that in retrospect maybe the way I suggested would have been smoother.
Then he'll come ask about Y, and he wants to do Y in a specific way. But I'll suggest he do Y in another way and explain why. Then he'll insist on doing Y his way, and some weeks later, will come back and say that it didn't work and get all frustrated with the system. So eventually he'll do Y, maybe in the way I suggested, maybe in another way. And he'll say that he sees that in retrospect maybe the way I suggested would have been smoother.
Then he'll come ask about Z... you get the idea.
It's frustrating that he doesn't seem to realize that he's coming to me for my perspective because I've wrangled with this system before, and even though I don't control the system, I've figured out some ways around and through and under. But he always insists that I just don't understand adequately and gets frustrated that I suggest another possibility. Or he gets frustrated at me for being the system.
I should just nod and let it go, shouldn't I?
It's how some kids learn. I think we have to just say what we say, and the accept that they will do with it what they will!
ReplyDeleteBut it is kind of crazy making...
Students who resist learning in any way other than those they have already decided on are very frustrating to deal with. In a graduate student, in my experience,that kind of resistance can be fatal to their degree. But the nature of their stubbornness itself prevents them from recognizing the danger they present themselves. It's a real shame--often the students are quite capable, and would succeed if they allowed themselves to.
ReplyDeleteMaddening. Maybe you should give him the advice you think he wants instead of good advice and see if he does the opposite? Then, maybe, he could get it right the first time. :) I use reverse psychology on people all the time -- not to manipulate them, really, but because I know that some people deliberately disregard facts out of a misplaced sense of optimism.
ReplyDeleteSo I wonder what this person would do if you asked, "Well, what is your plan? What do you think you should do?" And then he answered and you said, "Cool. Go for it." Would he, then, do it another way?
Students...
I'm with Susan. It's how some kids learn. (I was one of these kids!) Keep telling him (the right way) to do it. Believe me, he's hearing you, even when it seems like he is not. He's collecting data, someonewhere in his stony little rock of a head! Eventually he's going to have an epiphany and realize banging his rock of a head against the rock of the world is not such a brilliant move after all.
ReplyDeleteThen he'll be ready to hear!
Hope he learns faster than I did. (No, I will *not* tell you how long it took!)
I think you should point out to him what he's doing, and how that has worked out in the past.
ReplyDeleteoh, i'm late! took the occasion of daughter moving to an internship way the hell across the country to see the nation's capitol. yes, there were some moving problems, too.
ReplyDeletehere's my parental perspective. first, the pre-frontal cortex, responsible for executive functioning, is not fully developed until the early/mid 20's.
second, it is as important for students to fail in non-catastrophic ways as it is for them to succeed. this is how they learn to negotiate things beyond their control -- and to assess and use the advice of others.
my guess is that the student admires and trusts you; that he is listening; and that it's progress that he goes out of his way to say that your way might have been smoother.
the "kill the messenger" part (you don't understand; inappropriate venting of frustrations) -- oy, could i ever live without that. like what delanger said.