tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post8260046827329061040..comments2024-03-15T01:11:32.832-07:00Comments on Bardiac: Could I Pass Junior High?Bardiachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-88534557837461701142010-11-09T09:17:08.856-08:002010-11-09T09:17:08.856-08:00To add to this conversation late, a theme is usual...To add to this conversation late, a theme is usually an argument the text makes, so greed can't be a theme, but "that greed leads to personal ruin and loneliness" is, hence my understanding of StyleyGeek's English teacher.Earnest Englishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01947000435270263070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-28812673626785937782010-11-08T17:13:22.195-08:002010-11-08T17:13:22.195-08:00No, Sisyphus. My English teacher would fail you fo...No, Sisyphus. My English teacher would fail you for claiming "greed" is a theme. It has to start with "That..."<br /><br />("That greed is an example of a theme" is presumably the theme of your comment here :) )StyleyGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10287051608503966129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-14295793267125245122010-11-08T13:25:18.671-08:002010-11-08T13:25:18.671-08:00Sisyphus, you are my hero! Thank you! So, an abs...Sisyphus, you are my hero! Thank you! So, an abstract concept that comes through the text. I can see why that would be hard for a junior high teacher to explain.<br /><br />Thank you!Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-32674530133549287232010-11-08T12:36:09.973-08:002010-11-08T12:36:09.973-08:00Nonsense, people. Themes are totally what we use t...Nonsense, people. Themes are totally what we use to analyze literature. To quote from the Introduction to Narrative: "A theme is a subject (issue, question) that recurs in a narrative through implicit or explicit reference. With motif, theme is one of the two commonest forms of narrative repetition. Where motifs tend to be concrete, themes are abstract." <br /><br />And motif: "A discrete thing, image, or phrase that is repeated in a narrative. Theme, by contrast, is a more generalized or abstract concept that is suggested by, among other things, motifs. A coin can be a motif, greed is a theme." <br /><br />Until you can get kids to abstract themes from a text all you're going to get from them about what a text is about is "these two people were walking, and then they came upon this other person, but the other person didn't like them, so they shot him, and then, and then, and then" ad infinitum.Sisyphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09880634753539329199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-32956538158190575572010-11-07T23:20:57.774-08:002010-11-07T23:20:57.774-08:00I also vaguely recall "themes" as a lazy...I also vaguely recall "themes" as a lazy-ass way of teaching literature in high school. StyleyGeek nails the annoying, artless way we were taught to explain such things in papers. Through my haze of memories, I seem to recall reaching a point at which I could not longer participate quietly in such things, and began writing reaction papers as surrealist scripts.<br /><br />I hated most of high school English, but most of my high school English teachers probably weren't thrilled with me, either. :)Dr. Kosharyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777054788430587906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-86644415531103266082010-11-07T20:23:45.667-08:002010-11-07T20:23:45.667-08:00Oh, I also think she used the term "themes&qu...Oh, I also think she used the term "themes" where I would usually rather talk about "motifs" - with the above exmaples, in order to claim they were the "theme" you had to show how they came through in many different ways in many different places in the novel. I think the formula she gave us for answering "theme" questions on exams was something like "The theme is that... The plot of the novel portrays this theme by... The theme comes through in the characterisation because... The theme also comes through in the style of the novel, e.g... The setting of the novel reflects the theme in the following ways..."<br /><br />God, I hated high school English.StyleyGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10287051608503966129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-21766213810472586632010-11-07T20:19:54.342-08:002010-11-07T20:19:54.342-08:00I remember our high school English teacher was rea...I remember our high school English teacher was really into "themes" too. I think she saw them as "morals" or similar. She insisted that a theme always had to start with "That..." so you weren't allowed "vague" answers, like saying that the theme of the novel was "death" or "nature vs technology". Rather you had to say the theme was "that death is permanent" or "that nature and technology are at war with each other in modern society."<br /><br />I found it kind of silly, really, because who says that novelists all have a "that" theme in mind when writing a novel. Surely some of the best novels are explorations rather than diatribes!StyleyGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10287051608503966129noreply@blogger.com