tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post7876705259340032554..comments2024-03-15T01:11:32.832-07:00Comments on Bardiac: I hate this playBardiachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-78464651177374608742008-08-02T17:04:00.000-07:002008-08-02T17:04:00.000-07:00I, too, saw the GRSF production of "Taming" this s...I, too, saw the GRSF production of "Taming" this season. I liked how they presented it as a French influenced farce, complete with sound effects. <BR/><BR/>What pleased me about their version of the troubling Kate-subdued closing scene was something Peter Saccio pointed out, too, in his Front Porch Conversation about GRSF--in many productions of this play, the actor playing Kate kneels at the appropriate point in her speech and places her hand under Petruccio's or near Petruccio's boot. GRSF's Kate did not. She maintained an equal standing stance with him and extended her hand toward him; his response included turning it over and kissing it. This, to me, suggested an equality in their final exchange. <BR/><BR/>Having said that, I don't actually disagree with Bardiac's perception of the play as reflecting patriarchal culture's approval of practically any means for controlling the womenfolk, especially the unruly ones. When I've had students read the play, they frequently have a hard time seeing it as a comedy at all. <BR/><BR/>It's true that there is undeniable violence in this play, but most of it (the actual violence) comes from Kate striking others, including her sister's suitors, her sister, her tutors, and Petruccio. No one hits Kate. Petruccio instead uses verbal threats (usually toward others, rather than Kate) and noise as tools of manipulation of Kate and his servants.<BR/><BR/>I also want to add that the American Players Theater in Spring Green, WI performed "Taming" within the last 6 years (and they took it on tour, too) and their version included the Christopher Sly framework. They did a fantastic job with the production. I had never seen the Sly portions included before (or since).<BR/><BR/>Anybody familiar with the "sequel", "The Tamer Tam'd" that someone else wrote in the 17th century as a follow-up on Petruccio? Sorry I can't recall the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-23606323082766846132008-07-29T10:03:00.000-07:002008-07-29T10:03:00.000-07:00Yes, that's how I teach Prioress's tale, as Chauce...Yes, that's how I teach Prioress's tale, as Chaucer being aware of the anti-Semitism of his time, and using the Prioress to comment on it. But the notes in the Riverside are wholly otherwise.delagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18197857250240640822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-61663675274099042032008-07-29T05:53:00.000-07:002008-07-29T05:53:00.000-07:00Heeee why I always like Macbeth better...no better...Heeee why I always like Macbeth better...no better than that smashing babies' heads speech for some good feminist rage.Sarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15606922510495018342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-58100858467241588282008-07-28T16:02:00.000-07:002008-07-28T16:02:00.000-07:00Re the Prioress's Tale -- surely, it says more abo...Re the Prioress's Tale -- surely, it says more about the <I>Prioress's</I> views than Chaucer's? She's one of his more devastatingly satirical portraits -- someone who considers herself very genteel, cultured, and devout, but is in fact blatantly ignorant about a lot of stuff (breaking rules of her convent right and left, showing off the French she can't speak properly, fixated on good manners rather than piety). I'm pretty sure Chaucer <I>wanted</I> his audience to notice the incongruity in the fact that she weeps over a mouse caught in a trap but gleefully tells stories about the slaughter of Jews.<BR/><BR/>I've got a lot to say in defense of <I>Merchant</I> as well, but probably too much to fit in a comment thread. Expect a longer post soon...Fretful Porpentinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165078003123517013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-32397505727416698412008-07-28T13:35:00.000-07:002008-07-28T13:35:00.000-07:00I saw a production at the new Globe several years ...I saw a production at the new Globe several years ago done by a cast of women. It was fantastic - the woman who played Petruchio did a wonderful parody of masculinity. As for _Titus_ - well, I've never read it. I'm a Shakespearean, and I've never read a Shakespeare play precisely because I can't stand the thought of Lavinia's rape. Though I did see a fabulous snippet of that scene done by some local - and fearless - high school students this year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-85523131456602971982008-07-28T12:36:00.000-07:002008-07-28T12:36:00.000-07:00Thanks for commenting, folks :)Pilgrim/Heretic, LO...Thanks for commenting, folks :)<BR/><BR/>Pilgrim/Heretic, LOL @ the Charlton Heston remark. I can just imagine that production!<BR/><BR/>Flavia, Oooo, you're teaching T&C! I've never taught it yet! Now I'm all jealous! Good choice! I'd like to see an all-male production of Shrew, or one with the Christopher Sly framing.<BR/><BR/>RoaringGrrl, You're absolutely right that the framing could change things, especially if you added in the end stuff from "A Shrew." But this didn't have the framing, and alas, I forgot about it while I was watching.<BR/><BR/>Fretful Porpentine, I think it's the fun of the play that makes me hate it so much. And yep, I'd like to see the framing part, too!<BR/><BR/>TBTAM, I think I know what you mean about the time and all, but there are so many GREAT female roles that negotiate the patriarchal stuff in much more interesting and challenging ways written during the period. I don't think anyone during that period lacked for knowing strong women who worked the system as best they could.<BR/><BR/>Liz, Oh, that sounds like a really great production and way to end!<BR/><BR/>Delagar, I think you're right about Merchant, too. It's also vile in so many ways.Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-13831105603946816052008-07-28T07:39:00.000-07:002008-07-28T07:39:00.000-07:00I'm not sure saying "it was a different time" make...I'm not sure saying "it was a different time" makes it cool. That's what it says the notes my Riverside Chaucer say about the Prioress's tale -- it's okay that we've got some Jew-hating here, you know, because everyone hated Jews in those days. It's cool that Chaucer's writing about a pogrom with such glee, because everyone liked to hear about the torture and slaughter of Jews back then.<BR/><BR/>I've got trouble with the Merchant of Venice for the same reason. I know it's supposed to be played ironic, but I can't read it that way, and usually I don't believe Shakespeare meant it that way.delagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18197857250240640822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-90547521234120283992008-07-27T23:57:00.000-07:002008-07-27T23:57:00.000-07:00I know what you mean about the ending. Milwaukee ...I know what you mean about the ending. Milwaukee Shakespeare did this play a few years back with an all male cast. Kate's closing lines were done seriously as the actor shed his skirts, and ended with Petruchio and Kate staring at each other, equal but neither pleased.Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646559548654732787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-201675812500037152008-07-27T18:49:00.000-07:002008-07-27T18:49:00.000-07:00I've always had problems with the ending of this p...I've always had problems with the ending of this play. However, one must remember that it was written in a very different time and place from where we are today. And for it's time, it was very progressive to have such a strong female character, who in the end, stays who she is. She learned to play the game to get what she wanted, which is what we all do, in many small ways.<BR/><BR/>Great post.Margaret Polaneczky, MD (aka TBTAM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16555722791007332247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-78580004616922138112008-07-27T16:17:00.000-07:002008-07-27T16:17:00.000-07:00I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I've seen Shr...I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I've seen <I>Shrew</I> twice and thought it was rather fun both times, the same way I think the Stones' "Under My Thumb" is rather fun if you <I>completely</I> turn off your critical thinking instincts for the duration. I'm not sure what it says about me that I don't really have any difficulty turning them off.<BR/><BR/>I really, really want to see it performed with the Christopher Sly frame, though.Fretful Porpentinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165078003123517013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-20446823243080852172008-07-27T12:57:00.000-07:002008-07-27T12:57:00.000-07:00Yup, it's definitely a tough play to stomach. Exce...Yup, it's definitely a tough play to stomach. Except....it's a play within a play. The whole Christopher Sly framing piece sort of saves it for me.<BR/><BR/><I>Taming</I> is the play a drunken Christopher Sly watches when he's been made to believe that he's a nobleman. I wonder what else in that play within a play shows us people believing themselves to be something that they're not?<BR/><BR/>roaringgrrlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-83629547375939432342008-07-27T12:00:00.000-07:002008-07-27T12:00:00.000-07:00Yeah, I have a hard time with it, too--and when I ...Yeah, I have a hard time with it, too--and when I decided last fall to teach it (for pretty much the first time), I didn't think it worked particularly productively. So this semester, I'm getting rid of it in favor of <I>Troilus and Cressida</I>. Sure to be a crowd-pleaser!<BR/><BR/>I did see a fantastic production of <I>Shrew</I> several years ago, though I think the reason the marital dynamics didn't overshadow everything else was because it was done with an all-male cast. The setting was supposed to be Spanish Harlem in perhaps the 1950s or 60s, and the production was joyeous, suffused with music and coreographed within an inch of its life. <BR/><BR/>The man who played Kate was rather tall and, though slim, seemed physically powerful. If I remember correctly, Petruchio was scarcely any bigger. I really think that Kate's physical presence--and her extremely outsized, almost drag-queeny personality--is what eliminated a lot of the squick factor for me. The ending was surprisingly tender, and even moving (this production had some silent business between just K & P, after her speech was over).<BR/><BR/>As you're suggesting, though, productions today may <I>have</I> to get creative--whether through making Kate's speech tongue-in-cheek, or using a male cast, or playing Petruchio more comically, to make the play palatable today.Flaviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17974015.post-73584974081947112272008-07-27T10:45:00.000-07:002008-07-27T10:45:00.000-07:00Hear, hear.Have you seen the 1950s TV version with...Hear, hear.<BR/><BR/>Have you seen the 1950s TV version with Charlton Heston? No tongue-in-cheek there, as you can imagine... Nobody says "abusive patriarchy" like Charlton Heston!Pilgrim/Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08588407758172717893noreply@blogger.com